Hi all, Honestly, you go off for a camera up yer a*** and return to all hell let loose. Roll on cancer...
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Let me try to calm the waters on what was hoped to be a simple light humoured post which would generate some historical interest for future generations into our once proud declining British Industries...
Firstly, there seems to be some sort of desparaging comment bandying about on here, Can you not all discuss things in an open, conjecturing manner, with respect for each other without resulting to desparaging comment. It does come over as children in a playground. We all have grievances and axes to grind, (I more than most, believe me), but come on everyone...Its
Secondly, Pete seems to have a skewed view of the British worker. I won't deny that there were workers in the yard who simply turned up and "signed the visitors book"...I know of one man who been sacked for "jumping the wall" for going for a pint on nightshift as a journeyman..He returned to the yard shortly afterwards and was given a Supervisors role...Astounding! - Makes me angry for one, especially in hind sight at his manner of working without regard for safety of his men. But I know of Miners who were known to be repeatedly off work on the sick, They'd say, if a stone fell at the colliery it'll be a certainty he'll say it hit him and he'd claim compensation...There are good and bad in all industries, don't fall into the trap of lumping everyone into the same cliche...
As for the comments on demarcation. Yes, there were demarcation lines which used to cause immense frustration.
In the example you've cited, I think there's a bit of liberty being taken.
In my time in the yards from 74 - 88 -
( and yes to one poster; my first ship was Gandara !
If you were at the launch, I was the kid who ran with the furthest of the four keys to launch her, from the stern; arriving before the other three runners -
You run fast when there's a chance of a ship landing on yer head and turning you into nothing more than a streak of blood on the stocks I can tell yer !- But thats another story)- ....there would be a marker off, marking all bulkheads, etc, from plans to ensure everything went on without any fouling between other departments structures, this was even more strict when Royal Navy protocols had to be observed.
Waiting around for a welder, burner or driller was always a frustration, and led to hold ups...but if organised with some skill, this wouldn't be a problem.
There would possibly be Chargehands or similar around making sure the job was completed and the tradesmen then directed to another part of the ship and another job, the example you uphold as true
seems farfetched, but on closer inspection could well show why there where many workers on the scene....Eg: Say the Sparkie was about to cite some electrical equipment with penetrations needed in bulkheads?...The Driller, having brought his drill and equipment to the scene of the job works with Pneumatic power lines. So he has to negotiate through a complex ship structure his air pipes etc to the scene and drill the hole. A welder might well be needed as well, in order to 'weld on' electrical equipment attachment brackets or weld in the cable tubes or glands through the bulkhead or deck/deckhead).- For ship integrity this is a skilled job, which must uphold BS standards, pointless leaving a job with a minute hole in the bulkhead and water squirting in is it?... and all the welding cabling and equipment must be brought to site....A burner may be needed to burn out a none round hole or larger hole for a gland, dependant on how many cables where ariving at said job, this would entail needing oxy -acetylene supplies on the job, - and they need removed to prevent a disaster such as occured on HMS Glasgow (RIP lads); A firemen would most likely be on site to prevent loss of life. The spark might need a second colleague to be on the other side of a bulkhead to recieve glands penetrating through before welding or tightening in place -hard to do by one self but sometimes manag,able...They scene is set showing that one man couldn't accomplish this himself..He'd spend all day getting the job set up and then making everything safe again before moving onto a second job...The Chargehand would most likely be present as his only chance of getting this welder, burner or driller, due to shortages as more and more workers were trimmed off the wage bill, and that entails taking said Black tradesman around a series of jobs in different locations...So in hindsight, to the uninitiated, one can see that it might be groups of people standing around at what appeared to be a simple job and something which could be completed in a jiffy by one or two men. Rarely the case.
You must remember also, that the Black Trades, (GMBU? Boilermakers Union used to hold sway in protecting jobs for their men, and it did stifle efficiency at times, it certainly stifled the electrical departments bonus scheme, which had to merge with the Black trades scheme and was never paid out again while i was there..despite a certain carrier coming out a year ahead of schedule to to a National emergency, and huge advances in efficiency - HMS Coventry came in at under budget for cable reeving for the first time in Swan's history): By the time I left due to works accident, (not my doing); things had certainly turned and efficiency was parmount, but we were working on skeleton staff, as hard as we could, because we couldn't afford any shirkers..Don't work efficiently and you were out was the maxim in the electrical department by mid 80's...
![Shame on you [-X](./images/smilies/eusa_naughty.gif)
And this was a recipe for injuring men.
Peter, Please don't succumb to present government indoctrination by tarring everyone as skivers,
![d'oh! #-o](./images/smilies/eusa_doh.gif)
I mean to say, I'm now disabled -so I've obviously never worked in my life and am definately the scurge of Britain....Otherwise, perhaps you should run for Government in the Conservative party?
To set the record straight. When injured I had been working around 96 hrs per week, (yes 96!), grabbing a swig of tea and a sarnie on the move, no dinner break; as I organised installation of electrical systems.. 7 days a week for 10 months without a day off, 7.30 in the morning start time, with queues of men awaiting information before start, finishing around 10.30pm at night after giving jobs to nightshift which I'd organised on route throughout the day -all in dangerous conditions and coping with an ever-changing dymanic installation programme with safety paramount for my lads...arriving home after 12 many times and then back first thing...and that was a regular occurance with the way contracts arrived in the yard.
Rarely from an apprenticeship at 18years old, did I work less that 56 hrs per week, on some contracts, like many Sparks, spending hours upon hours pulling cables of all sizes through ships routes - imagine a tug of war team with little time to rest, take on water and working in sweltering conditions or freezing condition - go for a pee and they're one man down and everything grinds to a halt? -soon builds yer muscles up, but in the end leads to injuries...Britain as a whole seems to lend itself to finding fault in peoples work rate or skills.
Swan Hunters demise could be seen, not as a consequence of not changing work patterns or methods, ie; introducing modular building techniques, which were making substancial in roads on my many of the contracts I was involved in; but more on the intransegance of successive governments in not having a long term strategy of keeping skilled shipbuilders in constant employment against a back drop of cheap foriegn producers. Specialist one off designs were our forte at Swan Hunter.
The fact is, that someone such as myself, spending 4 years learning an apprenticeship in multiple disciplines of electrical work, from Power supply, gas and explosion proof installation, conduit, steelwork, safe working practice, wiring of cabinets, testing and commissioning from 6v up to 11,000 volts, DC AC, electronics, and a plethera of other things specialities ( which quite frankly are not covered by most sparks nowadays); then about another 6 years perfecting each discipline to a high standard, then finds himself umemployed as the yard has no orders, thence moves on to more regular work, (generally with better pay and conditions0, and does not return.
That is the scandal which needed addressing (Apart from BAe's hold on MOD and government which allows them to waste money hand over fist with impunity, knowing that they will not be the one's going to the wall).
I could cry for the demise of the yards and the financial implications it has had on this region...But what do I know, I'm just a thick shipyard worker. Giz a Hamma and am happy...What a waste of skilled men. I'm a bit tired now, I'll look in again when well enough. Stay safe all. PS remeber "Derek" being an attendant/first aide...