market place flag

[jimmywizz]

can anyone remember the story on how the old market place was laid out in the shape of the union jack ? as a kid i always remember looking at the flag stones but i could never see it, but have a look at this old photo
http://www.southshields-sanddancers.co. ... re_big.htm

in the front of the photo you see three lines if you follow them up to the top left hand corner it looks like the lines then make the shape of the flag, so it could be that the flag never was the size of the whole of the market square only just a small part of it, also this is the first time i have noticed that there was underground toilets and a fountain in the square

[curly]

As far as I recall the flag in the flagstones only occupied half of the space in the Market Place. The half nearest St. Hilda's.

[Jim_in_France]

I actually thought the flag in the market was quite a recent thing and was put in some years ago, when they did work in the market? Unless my mind is more shot than I thought!

[captain beefheart]

the underground toilets were used as an air raid shelter during ww2, i believe a number were killed by a direct or near hit on the market

[captain beefheart]

i found this on the internet, its a record of all raids during ww2, worth reading the report shown below, i put a small part of it only for your interest, it gives details of the biggest raid of the war on south shields, my mum retold this to me many times especially about the market bomd as she decided to run home to tyne dock rather than go in the shelters at the market, providence or what..

[url]http://www.bpears.org.uk/NE-Diary/Inc/ISeq_23.html[/url]

[b]Tuesday, 30th September/Wednesday, 1st October 1941 N759[/b]

A number of residential and industrial premises were also among the places hit and at least sixty-one people were killed. The minesweeping trawlers 'Eileen Duncan' and 'Star of Deveron' were attacked and sunk, probably during this same air raid. Three bombs fell on Prince Albert Edward Dock. In South Shields, all of the E side of the Market Place was devastated including the Shields Evening News and Gazette building.. Compiled from official accounts.
Behind this terse statement by the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Home Security, (October 1st), lies a story of widespread bombing, some miraculous escapes and many acts of individual heroism in South Shields.

[captain beefheart]

two days later the fatal bomb on the market place shelter

Thursday, 2nd/Friday, 3rd October 1941 N761

It is estimated that about fifty bombers took part in this attack on South Shields. Many fires were started including one that required twenty pumps to contain it. St Hilda's Church in the Market Place, the Town Hall, Crofton's Department Store, Woolworth's were hit, a Public Shelter in the Market Place received hits on two of its entrances, killing twelve people. In a public house which had its roof blown off, a merchant seaman dug himself out and walked six miles to rejoin his ship.

[Jerry]

The part of the Market Square nearest St Hilda's was originally marked with a design to show that this section belonged to the church, and tithes from the market on that section were due to the church.

This was dug up in 1906. In 1981, a flag design was outlined in the re-cobbling of the Market Place (total cost £50,000) and word got about that this 'Union Jack' was a memorial to those who died in the shelter.

This story is quite untrue, however. There is no memorial.

[Pooter]

I don't know about the flag but it's a smashing photo.

[Jarrow Pete]

The underground toilets were still in use in the 60s. Can also remember there was also underground toilets at the Nook and under the bus shelter at Westoe.

[Jim_in_France]

What about this union jack? I'm sure this design was only put in in the 70s or 80s when work was done in the Market, but I cant recall it still being there?

[Barney]

My mother always told me that the side of the Market Place near St Hilda's was designed in the shape of a Union Jack. This was mainly destroyed during the bombing raid mentioned in this thread. A much smaller Union Jack was made out of cobbles on a path on Chapter Row / East Street behind the Mermaid's Tale in memory of the one that was destroyed. I'm not sure if recent developments have reinstated the Market Place Jack and removed that one. I can't see it on the satellite image.

[Norm]

The underground toilets were still in use in the 60s. Can also remember there was also underground toilets at the Nook and under the bus shelter at Westoe.

Not that I frequent toilets you understand - but ....

Aye the nook toilets - on the opposite side to the shops, especially the big shop on the corner, that became a decorators shop when I was a kid, and for some reason the co-op comes to mind, though I also seem to recall that the co-op was actually on Sunderland Road opposite the cranny / nook. that's where me nan used to send me for that horrible "long tom" milk, bread and suchlike. I was actually born in South Close just off Borough Road.

Westoe Toilets were under the bus-stop on Sunderland Road, by the junction of Westoe Village, opposite something House which was something to do with adult education later on.

[sless]

wyvestoe lodge

[Globalmyths]

Thank you to all contributors of this thread. As I love reading about such things.

[Jerry]

Why not bombard the council with requests for a plaque in the Market Place (perhaps on the Old Town Hall) to honour the victims? North Shields has one.

And perhaps one behind the Town Hall where the only German bomber brought down in Shields fell?

Successive generations need a reminder of the sacrifices and achievements of their ancestors.

[Jarrow Pete]

Why not bombard the council with requests for a plaque in the Market Place (perhaps on the Old Town Hall) to honour the victims? North Shields has one.

And perhaps one behind the Town Hall where the only German bomber brought down in Shields fell?

Successive generations need a reminder of the sacrifices and achievements of their ancestors.

There is a plaque on the old Regent cinema entrance to commemorate the air raid wardens and rescue personnel who were killed in a wartime bombing raid.

[Jarrow Pete]

And perhaps one behind the Town Hall where the only German bomber brought down in Shields fell?

Jerry was that the same aircraft that a young German came out of and died caught up in the trolley bus wires at the lifeboat memorial. I can remember my late grandfather who was in the home guard telling me how upsetting it was, when they got to the German who was only a boy he said he was still conscious and crying out for his mother.

[Jerry]

Yes it is, Pete. I mention it on page 2 of The Way We Were thread, and there have been other posts about it. The sites quoted give the fuller picture.

[matthew142]

There's a book in the local history library that lists all the air raids hitting the local area, night by night, raid by raid. Some years ago I sat with a map and a pack of coloured pens, and plotted the hits raid by raid... I could track the German bombers by the lines of hits from each 'stick' of bombs... fascinating stuff.

As a lad I lived near the prefabs in Moffett Street/Marsden Street, built after the war, and when they were pulled down we played in the rubble; we always called them the 'bombed buildings' which I suppose they were, after the bomb hit the original houses during the war.

I cannot remember now from the map and pens episode, but I wonder if the one bomber dropped his stick in a line that hit Harton Cemetery, the field where the college now stands, Westoe Fountain, Moffett/Marsden Street, the Pulley Bank... and was he aiming for the gas tank... who knows.
(Try it on Goggle Earth with the virtual map pins; oh, I am easily amused!)

For those who don't know, the local history section in in the Central Library basement, and it is an essential visit for local history enthusiasts, or even casual browsers; packed full of books, documents, microfiche records, etc., and with very helpful staff. I wish I had more time to spend there. One day......

[Globalmyths]

Welcome Matthew142 nice to see another scribe on the boards, do you reckon your old friends Mark Luke and John are likely to come on board.