brexit

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sherri
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Re: brexit

Post by sherri » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:56 pm

I wouldn't have called a vote of 60% in favour to stay as all that decisive either but it would have still been a win and as such, to be honoured.

Whether the no result was expected or not, it was still a No result.

They need to hurry up, it's not a good look, just floundering around.

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Re: brexit

Post by whip » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Never noticed this thread.

My bad.
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Re: brexit

Post by Beachbum » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:12 am

I have no idea if leaving or staying is the best option, but the referendum question was pretty clear and the result was leave.
Even if the deciding factor was only one vote that means you have a winner and a loser.
I guess we will find out pretty soon if Great Britain really is a democracy.

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Re: brexit

Post by sherri » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:53 am

I don't think anything dire will happen if Britain leaves the EU.
I think change is always a challenge & people worry about it, but once it happens, people adjust.

They should just do it. Never know till you give it a go. it might even be better.

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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:04 am

sherri wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:53 am
I don't think anything dire will happen if Britain leaves the EU.
I think change is always a challenge & people worry about it, but once it happens, people adjust.

They should just do it. Never know till you give it a go. it might even be better.
Sherri, of course there is quite a mix of reasons given by people for wanting to remain in. I can only speak about those 'remainers' that are known to me. A fair number of them are people who have not lived in the UK for years, but who still retain a vote. Among them are people who live in places like Spain and who have chosen to do so because of climate and because their pensions have more spending power there. There is one who has lived in Thailand for years, with a woman half his age, the second one, who he has now married so that she will get a third of his government occupational pension when he dies. Having had a heart attack in the last three years, he also hopes to return to the UK if he becomes ill, as his stay in hospital last time, in Singapore (he was on one of his frquent holidays) cost his travel insurancve company £30,000. One has a home in the South of France and London while yet another lives in Poland with his Polish wife. Most of the others holiday on the Continent quite often.

They have their reasons. but I would say, without criticism, they are of self-interest rather than for the good of the country, which is often just a flag of convenience used to make them feel and look virtuous.

Some fear gaining one freedom only to face the threat of becoming more deeply entangled in a deeper disadvantaged trade position with America. That I do understand, as President Trump makes no secret of his goal: 'America First'. I have many American friends with whom I get on well, but America's global intentions and ambitions give me cause for great concern - but that is another story.

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Re: brexit

Post by sherri » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:57 pm

I wouldn't overly worry about America. I know they have tended to step into other countries a fair bit but my understanding of what Trump wanted was to concentrate on USA and stop spending the money overseas. The funny thing is, people complain when USA interferes then complain when it doesn't step in. pity daddyo is no longer around, he was always up for a political debate. I noticed on FB it would have been his birthday yesterday i think.

But anyway, I think China is the one to watch.

As for people voting for self interest, I think that is pretty much often the case, which is why pollies promise money and all sorts of goodies just before elections, I'm sure.

I don't think anything dire will happen if England leaves EU, your country will just come to different arrangements with European nations but trade and life will go on.

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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:33 am

sherri wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:57 pm
I wouldn't overly worry about America. I know they have tended to step into other countries a fair bit but my understanding of what Trump wanted was to concentrate on USA and stop spending the money overseas. The funny thing is, people complain when USA interferes then complain when it doesn't step in. pity daddyo is no longer around, he was always up for a political debate. I noticed on FB it would have been his birthday yesterday i think.

But anyway, I think China is the one to watch.

As for people voting for self interest, I think that is pretty much often the case, which is why pollies promise money and all sorts of goodies just before elections, I'm sure.

I don't think anything dire will happen if England leaves EU, your country will just come to different arrangements with European nations but trade and life will go on.
Sherri, whatever Trump claims are his views about interfering abroad, he - or 'they' continue to do it just as they always have - and not with a great deal of success either. He is at the minute being very cavalier in his attitude to the Middle East. It always has been and still is a powder-keg, and no where more so than in Israel. He has ignored UN policy in recognising Jerusalem as its Capital, Recognised Syria's Golan Heights as now part of Israel and so emboldened Netanyahu, in his attempt to win the next election, by claiming that he will annexe the 'settlements' on Jordan's West Bank. If you have a fire, it is not a good idea to pour petrol on it.

It would be nice to see the US sticking to what they are good at: being inventive in a commercial way and not behaving as the old Colonial powers did and push advantage through expanding militarily everywhere and trying to change Governments of neighbouring countries by funding rebels and bribing Ministers.

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Re: brexit

Post by J Jackson » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:35 pm

Maybe 2 years isn't a long enough time in the first place regardless whether it is the UK or any other country wanting to leave the EU.
Pilot voted leave.

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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:22 am

J Jackson wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:35 pm
Maybe 2 years isn't a long enough time in the first place regardless whether it is the UK or any other country wanting to leave the EU.
I've got to that age when two years is a long time! :lol:

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Re: brexit

Post by sherri » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:59 pm

J Jackson wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:35 pm
Maybe 2 years isn't a long enough time in the first place regardless whether it is the UK or any other country wanting to leave the EU.
Two years isn't all that long, granted. But it is long enough if they had really tried.

The months fly by if you sit around and procrastinate or just talk about it. Your politicians need to bite the bullet and really set to work on it.
I absolutely guarantee that if politicians had been told there was a 15% pay cut in effect till it was sorted, it would have been done in 6 months.

Just out of interest, I looked up how long it took to develop the atomic bomb (which i think would have been a tad harder than simply formulating an exit plan).
Very interesting reading. The idea was broached in USA in 1939 and the president-get this-ordered a committee to be set up to investigate the issue. Nothing much was done, the theory was the director in charge was not that keen anyway, maybe he put it in the too hard basket.
They were still working out a development plan when Pearl Harbour was bombed 2 years later.
The Manhattan project got the okay exactly then. What a difference motivation makes.

The website i viewed said that the 1939-1941 work only amounted to about 4 months of any real effort.

Bet your Brexit committee is exactly like that.

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Re: brexit

Post by Rosie » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:19 am

I remember when the UK joined the common market, as it was initially called, and I must admit I thought it a good idea. I don't agree with what it has evolved into today. As an outsider looking in, and that is what I am these days, Britain may as well not have a government of it's own. If the British Government makes a law the EU doesn't like they are told, no you have to do it our way.

I meet quite a lot of British people on holidays as I have a market stall in a popular holiday destination and I very often ask what their opinion is on Brexit. Until recently everyone I spoke to said the sooner we get out the better. Just one couple I spoke to not so very long ago said they initially voted out but have changed their minds and and would vote remain and in their words "afterall we have been Europeans since 1969." I was gobsmacked and lost for words. I may live in Australia and be an Australian citizen but I am still British and proud of it. I know if you want to pick points the UK is in Europe but first and foremost British people are just that British people.

As to the Government and Mrs. May I wonder why she was made PM when Cameron resigned. Surely someone who wanted out would be a better choice than someone who wanted to remain. Just my thoughts.

My sister is coming over that way for a holiday next month and when she asked me to go with her I said no I'm never going back again.
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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:16 pm

Rosie wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:19 am
I remember when the UK joined the common market, as it was initially called, and I must admit I thought it a good idea. I don't agree with what it has evolved into today. As an outsider looking in, and that is what I am these days, Britain may as well not have a government of it's own. If the British Government makes a law the EU doesn't like they are told, no you have to do it our way.

I meet quite a lot of British people on holidays as I have a market stall in a popular holiday destination and I very often ask what their opinion is on Brexit. Until recently everyone I spoke to said the sooner we get out the better. Just one couple I spoke to not so very long ago said they initially voted out but have changed their minds and and would vote remain and in their words "afterall we have been Europeans since 1969." I was gobsmacked and lost for words. I may live in Australia and be an Australian citizen but I am still British and proud of it. I know if you want to pick points the UK is in Europe but first and foremost British people are just that British people.

As to the Government and Mrs. May I wonder why she was made PM when Cameron resigned. Surely someone who wanted out would be a better choice than someone who wanted to remain. Just my thoughts.

My sister is coming over that way for a holiday next month and when she asked me to go with her I said no I'm never going back again.
Rosie, I never wanted to join 'The Common Market' as it was known in those days, mainly because I felt it was the thin edge of the wedge and so it has proved to be. A free trade area with nine countries now numbers in the high twenties with a waiting list of mainly 'poor' countries wanting to come in. with long term ambitions of Federation and having its own defence forces

The European Parliament (to placate French pride) moves once a month for just four days, at enormous expense, from Brussels to Strasbourg with its 751 MP's and all that work there. You just couldn't make it up! We have a Supreme Court in London whose decisions are often appealed against in the EU. We have our own Elected House of Commons and the 'unelected House of Lords' to make our laws, but only if they comply with the laws made in the EU. We have devolved parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, a London Government under the Mayor which is just about as powerful as they are and various layers of Government at local levels below them. Our Westminster MP's seem never to have been more divided and watching 'Parliament Live' is like watching a load of ferrets fighting in a sack! We are over-governed and in one hell of a mess.

Add to all that lot, the UN in New York, which is largely manipulated by the permanent members of The Security Council huffing and puffing at great cost and to little effect, and NATO, which however good an idea it was when formed, has become little more than part of the American Defence forces creating more problems than it solves by trying to suck in former Iron Curtain Republics and involving itself in the various regime changing operations in the Middle and near East - destabilising everywhere in the name of stability and democracy. Best not mention oil! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: brexit

Post by Rosie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:03 am

Ralph the more I read the more I get confused. It is very hard to find real information about the deal that Mrs. May wants to get passed in parliament and what the problems are with it. I did read somewhere about the talks she had with Corbyn and the things he wanted to change, can't remember now what they were but I thought they weren't in the best interests of the UK but as I said I am only an outsider looking in.
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Re: brexit

Post by andysfootball » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:09 am

sooner we are out the better

especially for people in the north
STAY CALM AND SANDDANCE ON

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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:18 pm

Rosie wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:03 am
Ralph the more I read the more I get confused. It is very hard to find real information about the deal that Mrs. May wants to get passed in parliament and what the problems are with it. I did read somewhere about the talks she had with Corbyn and the things he wanted to change, can't remember now what they were but I thought they weren't in the best interests of the UK but as I said I am only an outsider looking in.

Rosie, Corbyn himself apparently always had problems with us being in the EU, But his Party, Labour has in itself got some deep splits with some very traditional Labour areas having voted to leave. We can only guess from leaks, but I think the main sticking point is that Labour really wants another Referendum and are insisting that whatever agreement they might reach, it must be put to a 'confirmatory' referendum. In other words: a second referendum by slight of hand. If they once start to want referendums on all major issues, we will soon find ourselves in a lot of trouble. Scotland wanted one on independence, they got it, lost, but would now like another one as just with the one on leaving the EU, they got the 'wrong' result! :lol:

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Re: brexit

Post by Rosie » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:18 pm

Can I ask another couple of questions?

I read this this morning "more than 700 MEPs elected by the public, 73 of which will be representing Britain for as long as the country remains in the bloc,"

700 elected and 73 representing Britain. Why elect 700 when only 73 represent Britain? Who pays these people? What do the other 627 MEPs actually do?
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Re: brexit

Post by sherri » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:25 pm

Those 73 who represent Britain "for as long as the country remains in the bloc' won't be in any tearing hurry to leave. The longer you stay in, the longer they get their wage.
Maybe cut them out of any negotiations for a start, they have a conflict of interest.

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Re: brexit

Post by whip » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:32 am

andysfootball wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:09 am
sooner we are out the better

especially for people in the north
You are deluded footy.

Since when has any government in Britain in or out of the E U give a damn about the North or the N E :?:
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Re: brexit

Post by ralph » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Rosie wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:18 pm
Can I ask another couple of questions?

I read this this morning "more than 700 MEPs elected by the public, 73 of which will be representing Britain for as long as the country remains in the bloc,"

700 elected and 73 representing Britain. Why elect 700 when only 73 represent Britain? Who pays these people? What do the other 627 MEPs actually do?
Rosie, the 73 will be the ones representing us at the Parliament in Brussels and Strasbourg, the rest of them will be MEP's for the other countries in the EU. Of our 73, the UKIP ones know that they will be out of a job if they succeed in their main policy i.e. leaving the EU, the rest of the 73 will be dreading us leaving as they will not only be out of a job, but any hopes of further advancement will have come to a halt.


Opinion polls at the moment suggest that our major Parties are in for a shock at both the Local Elections that will take place in May and of course in EU Parliamentary Elections if we are still members of the EU when they take place.

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Re: brexit

Post by Rosie » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:30 pm

ralph wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:05 pm
Rosie, the 73 will be the ones representing us at the Parliament in Brussels and Strasbourg, the rest of them will be MEP's for the other countries in the EU. Of our 73, the UKIP ones know that they will be out of a job if they succeed in their main policy i.e. leaving the EU, the rest of the 73 will be dreading us leaving as they will not only be out of a job, but any hopes of further advancement will have come to a halt.


Opinion polls at the moment suggest that our major Parties are in for a shock at both the Local Elections that will take place in May and of course in EU Parliamentary Elections if we are still members of the EU when they take place.
I worry myself at times, obviously only 72 represent Britian but my little brain didn't comprehend that.

I can understand your politicians will be in for a shock come election time. I don't think politicians have ever given the public credit for being able to think for themselves.
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