jim in france / riots

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padlock man
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jim in france / riots

Post by padlock man » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:32 pm

So what are they over there, Jim?
A protest against unjust conditions, or criminals hiding behind a political mask?

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Jim_in_France
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Post by Jim_in_France » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:36 pm

Hi Padlock.

I dont know if you heard in the UK. But it seems to have started when two North Africans were electrocuted while trying to escape the police, after some criminal activity. This was in a poor area. It has continued for over a week. Apparently there was unrest umongst the young people in the area anyway. No work, No Prospects and No money! The riots have gone on for over a week.

The French government has admitted it is grim for the poorest people and are going to try and improve things. I like France for both of those reasons. When they protest.....They do it in style!!! No bits of stick with placards asking for a fair deal. Its all out war!

I also admire the government for admitting it is failing to do its job. When have we ever heard a British government accepting the blame? They usually blame the protesters and call them criminals and agitators. Then send in the heavy mob! Like they did with the miners. As far as I'm aware, all riots around the world, are done by the poor. Almost all "criminals" in prisons, are from poor backgrounds. This is where I feel the governments get away with dismissing people who protest, as criminals. They have managed to fool the masses into equating the "poorer classes" as "criminal classes". While the biggest ciminals wear suits and are heads of big organisations, well protected. They dont have to riot and rarely get caught! If they do, its a token 6 months in the best nick in the country. So I would ask. What are "Criminals"?

I was ...lucky? enough to be able to live in Highgate / Hampstead area some years ago. I never heard about a riot when the price of Champagne or Caviar went up! :twisted:
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

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Post by brian c » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:14 pm

Jim.

Your sirname wouldn't be Trotski by any chance :wink:

But seriously, what worries me is the copycat effect in England.
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Post by Keefbeer » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:28 pm

I wonder if the French will hold out against these attacks longer than they did with the Germans ? that would be about 7 weeks and the white flags will get an airing!!
Honest it was broken when I picked it up !

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Post by curly » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:48 pm

Is it true that their is a fair proportion of Islamic/Arabic elements embroiled in these "protests"?

baldy.smith

Post by baldy.smith » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:03 pm

My information is that it is the poorer and most dis-advantaged who are involved in the riots, it is just a coincidence that most of them are of North African and middle east origin. Religion has not been mentioned up till now and does not appear to be a factor.


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Jim_in_France
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Post by Jim_in_France » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:42 pm

brian c wrote:Jim.

Your sirname wouldn't be Trotski by any chance :wink:

But seriously, what worries me is the copycat effect in England.
Hello Comrade!

I've not heard about the UK brian. Its rare I follow any news. Are you getting it over there?
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

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Post by Jim_in_France » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:03 pm

Your right baldy. The trouble is in the poorest areas. And like many other countries poor areas, theres lots of imigrants. Though they are not the only ones rioting. French are too!

I looked at some French news tonight. Someone has been killed. The riotors are using shotguns and handguns. The government have still not REALLY condemned the rioters as such. But they are now.....after 11 days!....."Thinking" about getting tough. :lol: In an effort to stop the rioting. I think at present, about 1600 vehicles have been torched. Along with a selection of buisinesses and other buildings. So I cant say the French government are oppresive! :lol:

Being able to protest loudly, is a god given right, here. I read of one mans reaction to rioters in his area. He said "the burning cars light up the sky and look quite amazing". It reminded him of a war he said! Not one bad word against the rioters was said. Now thats what I call Free! I'm not aware of any public outcry. People just accept it as having the freedom to show displeasure at the government. Who after all! Are supposed to work FOR the people and make sure there are no oppressed or underpriveleged.
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

Oscar Wilde

baldy.smith

Post by baldy.smith » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:38 pm

Could be a good way of getting rid of your Panda Jim. :lol:

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Post by Jim_in_France » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:01 am

It would cost more in fuel to get it to Paris or Toulouse baldy, tham I would get in Insurance. :lol:

It looks like they are going to get tough here now. 9,500 Police and Gendarmes drafted in and given orders to open fire.

Bloody typical! 9,500 cops sent to Paris, but still enough left to stop me and give me a €90 speeding ticket yesterday! :cry:
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

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Post by brian c » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:07 am

No Jim we haven't had any bother here------yet.



Get what :?: :!: :wink:
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Riots in France

Post by Globalmyths » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:14 am

We are hearing about and seeing it on TV and reading about it in our Newspapers in Australia and in New Zealand.

There is a similarity between the cause of the Paris riots and what happened a number of months ago in Australia-Sydney.

It was in the Redfern suburb of Sydney which is home to many of the poor-indigenous-Aborigne people of Australia.

The police were chasing a youth involved with car stealing who also did a runner and despite being ordered to stop he in his attempt to escape from the police tried to climb over a fence and slipped impaling and killing himself. This-that is his death sparked riots in Sydney with the indiigenous population blaming the police for his death but I might add the riots only lasted a few days and was nowhere as bad or to the same extent as what is taking place in Paris.

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Post by sherri » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:42 pm

Your analysis, jim, struck a chord with me. You are right. Most riots are by poor people. Or by people who feel they don't have a 'voice'.
Poor people will be okay if they think there is hope for the future or if they think they have at least been treated fairly.
But if people think there is injustice happening and no way to make their voice heard, then they turn to violence and anger.
After a while it just hardens into hatred and anger and there won't be a lot of logic in it, but it comes initially through not having a 'voice' in the community.
That is how I see it sometimes, anyway.

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Post by padlock man » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:14 pm

Mmm, I dont know. If these rioters are so impoverished, how come they've got the latest mobile phones to film their exploits on?
I've heard that french benefits aren't too bad, and that even if you're out of work you're not starving.

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Post by Jim_in_France » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:14 pm

Thats my thinking Sherri. No voice, no hope.

Padlock, French benefits are better than UK. But you still cant "Live it Up" on benefits.

I said the rioters had torched 1600 cars. In fact, they are averaging 800 per Night!!! After 14 nights, that works out at.....Erm.....A lot of cars. So things are looking good for the car industries in France. :?
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

Oscar Wilde

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Riots

Post by Globalmyths » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:50 pm

These riots in France and elsewhere. I had a thought as I read above how that some of those involved were using cell phones and filming the proceedings etc.

Could it be that many of those involved are what I would describe as political activists-anarchists, university dropouts, cum ring-ins etc who are only there to undermine governments, regardless of the cause or current issue that precipitated the riots.

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Post by Jim_in_France » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:54 pm

Your not an MP by any chance Global? :lol:
"The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast."

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

Oscar Wilde

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Riots

Post by Globalmyths » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:14 pm

MP. Jim-in-France you ask me, Am I a MP? Only if your MP stands for in my case, a Manly Person who is, Mainly Prudent.

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Post by sherri » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:18 pm

padlock man wrote:Mmm, I dont know. If these rioters are so impoverished, how come they've got the latest mobile phones to film their exploits on?
I've heard that french benefits aren't too bad, and that even if you're out of work you're not starving.
I have to admit, at times I feel exactly as you do, padlock. But I did a course on "framework of poverty" and one thing that came out of it was that there is a definite difference in attutude to money between generational poor and others we may see as middle class.
Generational poor are scared -scared of having nothing, scared of being attacked physically too, often, as that is how they live their lives. So.. although they may not own their own home etc and might not even have a bank account, if by chance they do get a job for a while or come in to a few thousand $$$, they will go out immediately and spend it. So.. you get someone in a little rental place who may have one of those huge plasma TV's. They splurge (and by our lights at least) what they do have.
It is just a different attitude.

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