War of the Roses

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Pilot
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War of the Roses

Post by Pilot » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:38 pm

I'm watching a series on TV just now which I can recommend to anyone who likes English history its based on a series of books by Philippa Gregory, five books in all. The one i'm watching at the moment is called The White Queen previously I watched The White Princess. Its all about the War of the Roses full of plot and counter plot covering at least 4 Kings of England in the 15th century. Well worth a watch if it comes your way.
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Re: War of the Roses

Post by sherri » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:55 pm

Will have to look out for it.

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by ralph » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:57 am

Pilot wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:38 pm
I'm watching a series on TV just now which I can recommend to anyone who likes English history its based on a series of books by Philippa Gregory, five books in all. The one i'm watching at the moment is called The White Queen previously I watched The White Princess. Its all about the War of the Roses full of plot and counter plot covering at least 4 Kings of England in the 15th century. Well worth a watch if it comes your way.
Pilot. you are right, it is a fascinating if bloody period of British history, made all the more topical by the finding of the body of Richard III not so long ago. There was a documentary as to who would be the 'true' heir to the throne if over the years all of the in-fighting and family rivalries had not taken place. They asserted that that Edward IV was illegitimate based on research that alleged his father The Duke of York was elsewhere at the time of his conception which would make George Duke of Clarence and his decedents the true royal line. George ended his life being drowned (on his brothers orders), in a butt of Malmsey wine) As they used to say: "You can be sure who your mother is, but it is a clever man who knows who his father is." :lol: They concluded that If George was the true legitimate heir, then the Australian below, who was a descendant of his, had a claim to the throne. Interviewed at the time, he said he found it interesting, but he wouldn't be pressing a claim. :D

Michael Edward Abney-Hastings, 14th Earl of Loudoun (22 July 1942 – 30 June 2012) was a British-Australian farmer, who is most noted because of the documentary Britain's Real Monarch, which alleged he was the rightful monarch of England instead of Queen Elizabeth II.

He was born in England and educated at Ample forth College in Yorkshire, but emigrated to Jerilderie, New South Wales as a teen, where he was a rice farmer and family man.[3] He was the heir-general of George Plantagenet, the younger brother of Edward IV of England. If Edward IV had been illegitimate and the crown of England had descended by male-preference primogeniture before 1500, then George (and his heirs) would have been monarchs of England.

Abney-Hastings died on 30 June 2012 in New South Wales.[4]

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by Pilot » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:27 am

Well yes but if George had been king instead of being executed for high treason, he and not Richard would have probably been killed in battle by Henry and it would have all come out in the wash :wink: I love this period though, murder, betrayal plot and counter plot, not to mention the extra marital stuff, I wonder if our more recent royals will make such a good story to people in 500 years time, I suspect with the right author they might. :)
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Re: War of the Roses

Post by ralph » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:53 pm

Pilot wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:27 am
Well yes but if George had been king instead of being executed for high treason, he and not Richard would have probably been killed in battle by Henry and it would have all come out in the wash :wink: I love this period though, murder, betrayal plot and counter plot, not to mention the extra marital stuff, I wonder if our more recent royals will make such a good story to people in 500 years time, I suspect with the right author they might. :)
If George (who was a thoroughly bad lot) had become King, the arguments about Edward IV and his children's legitimacy would not have become an issue and so would have weakened the already weak claim of Henry Tudor. It is possible he would have found insufficient support to pursue
his claim. That being said, George, who himself swapped sides in the conflict and hence his unusual death, would probably have run into problems anyway. Such a tangled web it is just about impossible to work out how things would have ended up. :lol:

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by whip » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:33 pm

Once visited Bosworth Field where King Richard 3rd died.

I do believe it's called Ambian hill ?

There was a banner flying with a white boar on it.

Apart from that, there was nothing else there.
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Re: War of the Roses

Post by Pilot » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:55 pm

If we have to carry on with a royal family I hope Charles stands aside and lets William take over, Charles is a joke at least William has something about him.
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Re: War of the Roses

Post by sherri » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:08 pm

Pilot wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:55 pm
If we have to carry on with a royal family I hope Charles stands aside and lets William take over, Charles is a joke at least William has something about him.
That's not how an inherited title works though, is it. :D
You can't just skip the ones you don't like as much, it's not up for democratic vote.

Charles isn't too bad. A bit eccentric but maybe ahead of his time. He was into organic etc before it was fashionable.
By the time he inherits, you'll probably only have to put up with him for 20 years anyway.

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by ralph » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:06 pm

Pilot wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:55 pm
If we have to carry on with a royal family I hope Charles stands aside and lets William take over, Charles is a joke at least William has something about him.
Pilot. I suppose William gets your grudging approval because his children on their mothers side have Durham miners as ancestors ? :lol:

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by Barney » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:54 pm

The Wars of the Roses is an awesome and bloody period in English history. I was really p*ssed off at the way Dickspeare butchered Richard III's history and legacy because he wanted to curry favour with the Chewdors!(Should never have been a Tudor dysentery!)

Reading The Sunne In Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman and Conn Iggulden's Wars of the Roses series at the moment. Interesting to see who favours which side. (Penman - York, Iggulden - Lancaster.) Was thrilled (even verklempft!) when they found Richard III. Also, let's not forget, dragons aside, George R.R. Martin based A Song of Ice and Fire (a.k.a. A Game Of Thrones) on the Wars of the Roses, too. Sadly, we will never know the truth behind Edward IV's legitimacy or Richard and the Princes in the Tower, but imagining the possibilities will keep historical fantasy writers going for centuries to come!
The Wild Witch-Wizard of Whiteleas
Was a changeling's son from Mars.
He learnt his songs
From the Cosmic Throngs
And played them on a Fender guitar - Oh yeah.

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Re: War of the Roses

Post by ralph » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:10 pm

Barney wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:54 pm
The Wars of the Roses is an awesome and bloody period in English history. I was really p*ssed off at the way Dickspeare butchered Richard III's history and legacy because he wanted to curry favour with the Chewdors!(Should never have been a Tudor dysentery!)

Reading The Sunne In Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman and Conn Iggulden's Wars of the Roses series at the moment. Interesting to see who favours which side. (Penman - York, Iggulden - Lancaster.) Was thrilled (even verklempft!) when they found Richard III. Also, let's not forget, dragons aside, George R.R. Martin based A Song of Ice and Fire (a.k.a. A Game Of Thrones) on the Wars of the Roses, too. Sadly, we will never know the truth behind Edward IV's legitimacy or Richard and the Princes in the Tower, but imagining the possibilities will keep historical fantasy writers going for centuries to come!
The goings on in those days makes the poisoning and strangling of exiled Russians look like a storm in a Vodka glass! :)

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