Kindness and Understanding

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Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:01 am

There is a great deal of heat generated whenever the word racism crops up on the Boards and generally, it is not Race at the heart of the controversy but Religion. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a common root and yet some 'believers in all of the faiths have over centuries been prepared to murder each other while trying to establish which of them has interpreted God's Will correctly.

In my book, we humans have always needed a God or Gods to explain all that we didn't understand about the existence of everything. The clever and ruthless have always claimed to have a special relationship with God/Gods insomuch as they could convince the gullible that they alone could commune with Him/Her or It and deliver their instructions on how the rest of the people should live. Depart from those instructions and severe punishment would be swiftly delivered and death or exclusion from 'the Club' would swiftly follow, whereas if you did as Gods messenger told you, untold blessings would surely fall to you and yours.

I'm no expert on religion and I sure the more knowledgeable among you will quickly correct any errors I make, but it seems to me that the Jews, who claim they are God's chosen people, quite enjoy their exclusivity and so don't go around trying to convert people (though urging Pontius Pilate to crucify Jesus for his beliefs showed they too had a nasty side), while the other two have a long history of trying to impose their views on people using everything from murder to promising an everlasting life in Paradise to those who join the Club.

As scientific knowledge increases, the deeply religious have an ever harder task in trying to interpret their 'Holy Books in such a way as will demonstrate that their Prophets had foretold of it though in arcane language. Charles Darwin being deeply religious found his theory of evolution at odds with his religious beliefs, while a geologist once said: "Every time I break open a rock and find a fossil, it chips away at my religious beliefs." In every religion there are those followers who take a kind, merciful and humane view of its teachings, but there are always those who want to impose their views by force. It seems to me that it is not so much Race as Religion that generates so much of the hatred and discord that grabs the headlines these days and what we need is a lot more Kindness and understanding in our lives. I will soon know if we are to get it, by how quickly any reply to this post results in it being 'locked, :lol:

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by Pilot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:15 pm

I was chatting to a guy recently and Sandancers site came up and he said he was surprised I was a member of a racist site, reading your drivel over and over I can see why people logging in to Sandancers would think its turned into a site for race hate. These days I dont comment as much as I used to because its the same drivel from the same person all the time, you have all but killed this site why not move on and kill another ?
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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by sherri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:35 pm

It's a shame that people would think of sanddancers as a racist site as it is open to anyone to join & voice their opinions.
The fact of the matter is that there's only a small group of regular posters.

With regard to religion, I think most people thrive under some form of discipline & order in their lives. People also need social groups & to feel they belong.
Religion provides a lot of those benefits & can provide a sense of comfort when life gets hard.
Religion provides answers to a lot of the deeper questions people have about life.

I think over the last century, science has come to take the place of religion for some people, but possibly without the social connection/benefit.
For others, political beliefs/agendas almost act like a religion, & they also often have the social connection.

Would a bit more kindness go a long way? Of course. But it can't really be unilateral.

It might seem off topic (but I don't think it is) but just the last day or so, I was thinking how easily I kill flies, mosquitoes, spiders-no hesitation with the fly spray.
On what basis? Just because I don't like them. They're considered a lower life form, I suppose. They were going about their own little lives & I put an end to it.

If you get people (of any religion or political persuasion) who manage to look at other groups of humans like that, for any reason, then they will be able to kill without a second thought because they will see those people as something less than human. It's a mind set. We see it in terrorists today but it isn't exclusive to any religion or race. We saw it in the Nazis, we saw it in the English who in the early 1800s killed aborigines sometimes for sport.

I don't know how we get around it, except our laws have to be clear that that mind set isn't acceptable.
Last edited by sherri on Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by sherri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:01 pm

niagraa wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 pm
sherri wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:35 pm
It's a shame that people would think of sanddancers as a racist site as it is open to anyone to join & voice their opinions.
pilots talking b*llshit sherri.
No, I don't doubt that what he says is true & that some of his friends or neighbours may have the impression it is a racist site.

I'm not saying it IS a racist site, just that there could well be people with that impression. Probably from back in the day when Curly had all that trouble with someone in Sth Shields setting up a public site against this board.

Now I doubt a lot of the townsfolk have even bothered looking in since those days but mud sticks and I bet a lot of those people are just going on what they 'heard' or 'read' back in the past.

And let's be honest, some of your posts don't pull any punches. I'm not trying to say you are wrong or aren't entitled to an opinion, but you're also not the world's greatest diplomat. :D

The trouble as I see it is you write about the topics that interest you (as does everyone) but there aren't many of us on this board any more. If more people joined & made posts, then there would be more diversity, wouldn't there.

But I do know one thing-no one enjoys being abused. Not you, not pilot, not beachy. Me neither. :D

If people feel they are being abused or ganged up on every time they go on a board, then they'll stop visiting. I think that has happened in the past to a few, in fact I know it has.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by Pilot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:21 pm

I suspect a lot of what Niagraa writes is under the influence of drink or d*ugs, but to make a post inciting violence against anyone let alone a leading politician is a step too far in my opinion, there are a lot of nutters out there and not all are keyboard warriors like Niagraa some might be emboldened by reading his drivel.
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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by Pilot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:32 pm

I have expressed my opinion on religion often on here, but I have always respected those who have religious faith whatever branch of religion they follow, Ralph is right when he says people have always explained the unexplained by referring them as an act of god or gods but my hope is, that as education and science explains what was previously unexplained we can give up the notion of one or many gods and start to believe in the human race.
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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by Pilot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:07 pm

Oh dear.
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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by freon » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:20 pm

I have a suspicion that pilot may have seen a lot more of the real world than you Niagraa
cheers

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:31 pm

sherri wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:35 pm
It's a shame that people would think of sanddancers as a racist site as it is open to anyone to join & voice their opinions.
The fact of the matter is that there's only a small group of regular posters.

With regard to religion, I think most people thrive under some form of discipline & order in their lives. People also need social groups & to feel they belong.
Religion provides a lot of those benefits & can provide a sense of comfort when life gets hard.
Religion provides answers to a lot of the deeper questions people have about life.

I think over the last century, science has come to take the place of religion for some people, but possibly without the social connection/benefit.
For others, political beliefs/agendas almost act like a religion, & they also often have the social connection.

Would a bit more kindness go a long way? Of course. But it can't really be unilateral.

It might seem off topic (but I don't think it is) but just the last day or so, I was thinking how easily I kill flies, mosquitoes, spiders-no hesitation with the fly spray.
On what basis? Just because I don't like them. They're considered a lower life form, I suppose. They were going about their own little lives & I put an end to it.

If you get people (of any religion or political persuasion) who manage to look at other groups of humans like that, for any reason, then they will be able to kill without a second thought because they will see those people as something less than human. It's a mind set. We see it in terrorists today but it isn't exclusive to any religion or race. We saw it in the Nazis, we saw it in the English who in the early 1800s killed aborigines sometimes for sport.

I don't know how we get around it, except our laws have to be clear that that mind set isn't acceptable.
Sherri, having read what you said about religion, I turned my attention to what Buddhists think and looked it up on the Internet. I came across the following somewhat lengthy piece, but it is worth reading and coincides with my own thoughts. I don't expect the other Board memberes to read such a long piece, but as you have a particular interest in such matters, I think that you will. To me, it makes a lot of sense.
Do Buddhist believe in god?

No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Dp 188

Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by siam sam » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:22 pm

having visited many buddhist temples in thailand, i get the impression that the buddha is treated as a god by the offerings that are made to the statues of buddha. such as flowers, food and gold leaf being used to cover the buddha statues. so is buddhism a teaching of a way of live or is it drifting towards a religion?
zip me up in my oilskins and jumper.
no more down the docks i'll be seen.
just tell me old shipmates.
i'm taking a trip mates.
and i'll see them on fiddler' green.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:28 pm

niagraa wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:48 pm
hey ralph, so bhudda was just a philosopher, big deal, those know all w*nkers are a dime a dozen..

how does science convincingly explain the universe ? the big bang theory ? it's only a theory, there's nothing convincing about that.
Science is a path along which we are traveling. we cannot expect to know all the answers so early on our journey...Grasshopper. :lol:

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm

siam sam wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:22 pm
having visited many buddhist temples in thailand, i get the impression that the buddha is treated as a god by the offerings that are made to the statues of buddha. such as flowers, food and gold leaf being used to cover the buddha statues. so is buddhism a teaching of a way of live or is it drifting towards a religion?
Buddhists say not Sam. They say they are purely symbolic i.e. Flowers being among the most beautiful things on earth are offered knowing like all living things, they must fade and d*e etc. Not to seek favours or atone for sins.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by siam sam » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:20 pm

ralph wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm
siam sam wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:22 pm
having visited many buddhist temples in thailand, i get the impression that the buddha is treated as a god by the offerings that are made to the statues of buddha. such as flowers, food and gold leaf being used to cover the buddha statues. so is buddhism a teaching of a way of live or is it drifting towards a religion?
Buddhists say not Sam. They say they are purely symbolic i.e. Flowers being among the most beautiful things on earth are offered knowing like all living things, they must fade and d*e etc. Not to seek favours or atone for sins.
i shall have to question my wife on the subject ralph as she was born a buddhist, and has some strange views of life; like saying if your time is up just accept it.
zip me up in my oilskins and jumper.
no more down the docks i'll be seen.
just tell me old shipmates.
i'm taking a trip mates.
and i'll see them on fiddler' green.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:58 pm

siam sam wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:20 pm
ralph wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm
siam sam wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:22 pm
having visited many buddhist temples in thailand, i get the impression that the buddha is treated as a god by the offerings that are made to the statues of buddha. such as flowers, food and gold leaf being used to cover the buddha statues. so is buddhism a teaching of a way of live or is it drifting towards a religion?
Buddhists say not Sam. They say they are purely symbolic i.e. Flowers being among the most beautiful things on earth are offered knowing like all living things, they must fade and d*e etc. Not to seek favours or atone for sins.
i shall have to question my wife on the subject ralph as she was born a buddhist, and has some strange views of life; like saying if your time is up just accept it.
Nothing really strange about that Sam. Most of us have been taught over the centuries that if we obey all the rules of the Church, we will have eternal life in heaven. If we have 'eternal life at all, it is through that transmitted in our genes to our children - unless someone is going to provide me with indisputable proof to the contrary. If we were all to meet up again after death - somewhere 'up there', some people are going to have a lot of explaining to do to those who went on ahead! :lol:

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by Pilot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:04 pm

:lol: perish the thought :lol:
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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by sherri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:01 pm

Ralph, I had to have a smile where you mentioned your post was long. To me it wasn't, in particular. I've been on Ancestry the last few days following leads for other people & to see a few short paragraphs in your post is a walk in the park in comparison. :D

I would agree that humans possess more capability than they know.
But I also think most humans have a deeper side, a religious side if you like, where they are seeking the answers to life & for many, religious beliefs provide that.
If you are brought up by parents who are sincere in their religious beliefs, they will probably bring you up that way too. Doesn't mean you can't change as you get older but children's early experiences set the tone in everything, not just in religion but in culture, morals etc

I suspect there is a middle answer. Science itself is starting to show (from experiments I have read about) that prayer-any religion- has power. Now if we were talking about power on the person praying, we could say it was the placebo effect. But it's not. It is power to affect others who don't know they are being prayed for.

So does this prove a God? I don't believe it necessarily does. I think though it points to power behind thought or power behind collective emotion, which is rather a scary concept.
I think science hasn't got anywhere near to discovering the power within people yet. I believe telepathy & some other things exist in some circumstances, so maybe the Buddhist idea of looking into the person has merit.

But I also believe some people are just....damaged. Maybe they did it to themselves with d*ugs or drink, maybe their chromosomes contribute (I've read that some males with an extra Y in some cells are more prone to violence, which makes sense) but all the religion, all the philosophy in the world will not change some people.
I believe the killer I mentioned in a post I made is one of those sorts of people.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by andysfootball » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:30 pm

there are four or five forms of Buddhism

one of those forms is like the eastern equivalent of being a humanist

where no god is believed in

ironically the nationalist socialists in germany stole the emblem of the boda vista to us as their emblem

commonly referred to as the swastika

thus turning a symbol of peace and harmony into a symbol of hate and war
STAY CALM AND SANDDANCE ON

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by ralph » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:38 pm

sherri wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:01 pm
Ralph, I had to have a smile where you mentioned your post was long. To me it wasn't, in particular. I've been on Ancestry the last few days following leads for other people & to see a few short paragraphs in your post is a walk in the park in comparison. :D

I would agree that humans possess more capability than they know.
But I also think most humans have a deeper side, a religious side if you like, where they are seeking the answers to life & for many, religious beliefs provide that.
If you are brought up by parents who are sincere in their religious beliefs, they will probably bring you up that way too. Doesn't mean you can't change as you get older but children's early experiences set the tone in everything, not just in religion but in culture, morals etc

I suspect there is a middle answer. Science itself is starting to show (from experiments I have read about) that prayer-any religion- has power. Now if we were talking about power on the person praying, we could say it was the placebo effect. But it's not. It is power to affect others who don't know they are being prayed for.

So does this prove a God? I don't believe it necessarily does. I think though it points to power behind thought or power behind collective emotion, which is rather a scary concept.
I think science hasn't got anywhere near to discovering the power within people yet. I believe telepathy & some other things exist in some circumstances, so maybe the Buddhist idea of looking into the person has merit.

But I also believe some people are just....damaged. Maybe they did it to themselves with d*ugs or drink, maybe their chromosomes contribute (I've read that some males with an extra Y in some cells are more prone to violence, which makes sense) but all the religion, all the philosophy in the world will not change some people.
I believe the killer I mentioned in a post I made is one of those sorts of people.
I have no problem with accepting that we are far from understanding the powers within us and there are many examples of people possessing 'senses' that most of don't have. as I said in my answer to Niaagra in another post: with science, we are on a long journey and we have far to go.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by sherri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:49 pm

andysfootball wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:30 pm
there are four or five forms of Buddhism

one of those forms is like the eastern equivalent of being a humanist

where no god is believed in

ironically the nationalist socialists in germany stole the emblem of the boda vista to us as their emblem

commonly referred to as the swastika

thus turning a symbol of peace and harmony into a symbol of hate and war
It's interesting you mention that.
On Christmas day, my sister & I were over at Springvale cemetery and as my sister was driving around she went past the Chinese cemetery area & we decided to go in. Okay it is a bit of an unusual way to spend a fine Christmas evening, but we had an interesting wander around (some of those plots had to have cost at least $500,000 and probably a lot more :shock: ) but my sister was shocked to see a large swastika-probably over a metre square in size) on some.
I pointed out it was a religious symbol a long time before the Nazis ever used it but it was startling to western eyes.
There was also piped music from some and offerings of fruit, which is something I have also seen is common in Indonesia.

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Re: Kindness and Understanding

Post by niagraa » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:28 am

pilot still got his lips stuck your arse has he andy ?

doesn't matter one iota what you delete andy, pilot and the mutt are arseholes wether you like it or not, nothing you do will change that, they p*ss on me i'll p*ss on them..

THAT is fair.

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