Racist Debate Today…

[J Jackson]

While listening to a radio phone in today ,they were discussing that there has been an increase in people that consider themselves racist . A guy came on who made a great point ,he said he considered himself a cultureist rather than a racist,his argument, he didn’t think certain cultures worked well together ….unfortunately I missed the rest of his argument,any one else hear it ? what was the presenters response ? Radio 2 lunch time !


BTW,If asked,I do say I’m technically a racist,just incase you were wondering,think i’ll say a “cultureist “ from now on ,it doesn’t sound as offensive

[sherri]

What is racist?

The definition is thinking a certain race is superior to another.

I would say that means.. innately superior.. as in believing all black people are better than all white people or all Asian people or whatever, just by virtue of their race or skin.

To me, it is quite another thing to say that there can be cultural clashes between groups, or to look at crime stats in relation to ethnic groups.


I'll give you an example of what happened over here back in about the 1980s.
As you know, AIDS was becoming a problem. The health care people were well aware that the main problem was in the gay community of the time, but they felt they could not target their warnings or health messages as it would be sexist.

So the health messages were general and gave the impression everyone was at equal risk. Down the track, they did come out and target some of their health services and that is when they started to see some results.

To me, that sums up the muddled thinking. It is one thing to discriminate based only on s*x or race, but it is nowhere near racist or sexist to make factual links to tackle a problem.
And we're seeing that latter attitude labelled racist all the time. For instance, is it racist to look at crime stats in London to see if some groups are over represented and then try to figure out why, and how to fix it. I don't think so.

is it racist to say fair skinned blue eyed people may be more at risk of skin cancer? I don't think so.

I don't think I am racist at all, but I don't think all cultures are equal, or all countries have equal living conditions. I think the last few hundred years have seen European culture run way ahead and predominate, but this century may see other races start to overtake.

Preferring a particular way of life isn't racist IMO. We all have our preferences in food, fashion, leisure etc

[gnads]

Then you'll love this........................

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD Australians? This is certainly 'food-for-thought'.


This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. And send it on to everyone.
Maybe this is why our Australian Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.


Can a good Muslim be a good Australian?


This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.


The following is his reply:


Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .


Religiously - no... . .. Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam ... (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)


Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.


Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.


Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .....


Politically - no... . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders),
who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , (the great Satan) , Australia and the rest of the free world.


Domestically - no. ... . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife
when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )


Intellectually - no. .. Because he cannot accept the Australian Constitution since it is based on Biblical
principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion
and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no... . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind,
while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS
in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Australians. Call it what you
wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our
country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ......

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

[Tweedlady]

NOT MUCH TO LOOK FORWARD TO THE FUTURE!!

[ralph]

Race is usually defined by those with shared genetic characteristics such as the colour of skin and eyes, shape of nose and lips etc, whereas the thing that most often causes friction in populations is ethnicity, which may well include some of the aforementioned things, but also cultural differences. It's those cultural differences that most often get the pot on the boil and Gnads has just outlined a few.

Probably the most divisive difference is religion, and always has been. I suppose in most religions, most of the followers these days, regard their 'holy books' as a collection of explanations written down a very long time ago by people seeking to understand existence and all of its mysteries. Usually thrown in is a set of rules for society to live by and to justify and maintain the power of those who had it. Most people fortunately take a sensible and moderate view of it all.

Having said 'most' there are still huge numbers of people who don't and fanatics of any religion are still prepared to slaughter people in their countless thousands and do it in the name of God. Almost as bad are those people who want to pretend that just about everyone is good and, they are often the first people to hurl the word racist at anyone who takes a different view from their own.

[Globalmyths]

I am a racist: I don't eat brown bread.

[J Jackson]

Preferring a particular way of life isn't racist IMO. We all have our preferences in food, fashion, leisure etc

I agree,however certain people like to twist things around when they can by playing the race card…


Maybe he was a racist playing the culturist card ,turning the table on those very people who like to play the race card at any given opportunity .

[sherri]

What do people expect out of a society?

How would you define a successful society?

From memory, I think the basics are usually defined as food, shelter, access to s*x. Survival mode, I guess, at a very basic level.

People have mostly found it easier to manage those 3 things when they work together in groups.

Into all that, I would throw the idea that people need a degree of safety most of the time, as they go about their lives.

I don't know that there has ever been a perfect society, there is always some friction, that's normal for humans.

In our society, access to food, shelter, material possessions, and you could even argue access to other people is defined to a big extent by money.

From what I have seen over here in Australia at least, if you get a few people who migrate here who are different, they are tolerated, even thought of as interesting, and if they make the moves, they are accepted into society without any problems. I would think that is because they aren't seen as disturbing the status quo.

But bring in outsiders (any outsiders) in big numbers all at once, and you have an inevitable clash. Absolutely inevitable. Because it will be seen to hit money- and access to housing, jobs and so on. No one likes to see what they think of as a stable set up taken over, it upsets their idea of safety.
It is hitting a society at all the most basic levels.

[gnads]

Race is usually defined by those with shared genetic characteristics such as the colour of skin and eyes, shape of nose and lips etc, whereas the thing that most often causes friction in populations is ethnicity, which may well include some of the aforementioned things, but also cultural differences. It's those cultural differences that most often get the pot on the boil and Gnads has just outlined a few.

Probably the most divisive difference is religion, and always has been. I suppose in most religions, most of the followers these days, regard their 'holy books' as a collection of explanations written down a very long time ago by people seeking to understand existence and all of its mysteries. Usually thrown in is a set of rules for society to live by and to justify and maintain the power of those who had it. Most people fortunately take a sensible and moderate view of it all.

Having said 'most' there are still huge numbers of people who don't and fanatics of any religion are still prepared to slaughter people in their countless thousands and do it in the name of God. Almost as bad are those people who want to pretend that just about everyone is good and, they are often the first people to hurl the word racist at anyone who takes a different view from their own.

Ralph IMHO Islam is not merely a religion .... It encompasses every aspect of life ... Home, work, politics etc. and cultural differences within it vary from country to country. It's oppressive & regressive & allows things that we think unlawful & heinous. It's volatile, intolerant & without compassion or love.

[sherri]

I think all religions (if taken seriously) do define a lifestyle.
When you think of it, they provide people with a social group, a feeling of cohesion and belonging, and a shortcut to decision making. A quick moral compass, if you like.

We've grown up under the influence of 20th century Christian values, intermingled with modern westernised thinking. Issues such as equality & tolerance (between races, sexes) have been big on the scene.

What is really surprising me though is what I see as a bit of a blind spot in thinking. For example, you had Germaine Greer quite aggressively campaigning for equal rights for women. Yet when it comes to quite clear breaches of those rights overseas, she says oh well, that's their culture, we can't judge. But she was quick to judge and try to change western culture. So why is it okay to be critical of western culture but imperative to hold your tongue about other cultures?

I suppose it has been a kind of politeness, you can have a bit of in house fighting but you don't get critical of your 'guests' type of mentality.

But it is being carried to extremes.

Recently, over 200 girls were abducted by a muslim group, to be sold. That's a massive number. There has been minimal publicity really. Much less than for the plane that went missing. And you rarely hear the muslim part of it mentioned. Where is the outrage? Where is the demand for muslims to do anything about some of their extremists? What if this were reversed? What if some Christian extremists had stormed into a school and taken over 200 muslim women and openly claimed they would be handed round to Christian men and forced to become Christians.
Do you think there would be any reaction?


There is a woman over in Nigeria, I think it is, who is facing hanging. She is 8 months pregnant. Her crime? She became a Christian and married a Christian man. Any outrage from our usual sources here, the ones who would be super critical of any least insult to migrants here? No, not a whisper.
Apparently, if other groups overseas are extreme or violent, that's perfectly okay, we can't make a comment because that might be racist?

[gnads]

Sherri re: your questions I refer you back to my first post in this thread.

Therein lies the difference & PC brigade attack anyone as racists or bigots if they
dare be critical of the religion or any of it's followers.

[Tweedlady]

Recently, over 200 girls were abducted by a muslim group, to be sold. That's a massive number. There has been minimal publicity really. Much less than for the plane that went missing. And you rarely hear the muslim part of it mentioned. Where is the outrage? Where is the demand for muslims to do anything about some of their extremists? What if this were reversed? What if some Christian extremists had stormed into a school and taken over 200 muslim women and openly claimed they would be handed round to Christian men and forced to become Christians.Do you think there would be any reaction?There is a woman over in Nigeria, I think it is, who is facing hanging. She is 8 months pregnant. Her crime? She became a Christian and married a Christian man. Any outrage from our usual sources here, the ones who would be super critical of any least insult to migrants here? No, not a whisper.Apparently, if other groups overseas are extreme or violent, that's perfectly okay, we can't make a comment because that might be racist?[/quote]

NEVER MORE SENSIBLE WORDS SPOKEN!!!
CHEERS SHERRI!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[sherri]

I get upset tweedlady because we as a society are just like lobsters in water that is slowly being boiled, we're not seeming to notice the danger.

It is one thing to say it is overseas, just let them sort it out.

But if we don't like it or don't want those values in our own society, then we have to be careful what we allow to happen here.

If we allow extremists to live here, to preach here and to have their own sharia law, then bit by bit we will be importing trouble.

I am not saying more moderate muslims agree with what happened either, but the point is, they are not speaking up, they aren't doing anything, so they'll be in the same fix we will be in if we feel we can't say-that's a breach of human rights in our opinion, it is not acceptable.

[anna]

Recently, over 200 girls were abducted by a muslim group, to be sold. That's a massive number. There has been minimal publicity really. Much less than for the plane that went missing. And you rarely hear the muslim part of it mentioned. Where is the outrage? Where is the demand for muslims to do anything about some of their extremists? What if this were reversed? What if some Christian extremists had stormed into a school and taken over 200 muslim women and openly claimed they would be handed round to Christian men and forced to become Christians.Do you think there would be any reaction?There is a woman over in Nigeria, I think it is, who is facing hanging. She is 8 months pregnant. Her crime? She became a Christian and married a Christian man. Any outrage from our usual sources here, the ones who would be super critical of any least insult to migrants here? No, not a whisper.Apparently, if other groups overseas are extreme or violent, that's perfectly okay, we can't make a comment because that might be racist?

NEVER MORE SENSIBLE WORDS SPOKEN!!!
CHEERS SHERRI!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> [/quote]
i totaly agree Sheri =D>

[Delilahcat]

Fair comment Sherri. I am usually called PC and do gooder but I think there is nothing wrong with valid criticism. I was thinking of you Aussies during a debate on immigration on another board. Someone said we should be like Australlia and only let people with skills that we need come into the Country. Always seems to me that is a rose tinted view and Australia does have some problems with immigration and assimilating different cultures. Not being critical just saying that some people here think Australia has got it right.

[ralph]

Sherri says: "If we allow extremists to live here, to preach here and to have their own sharia law, then bit by bit we will be importing trouble." Very true of course, but it would seem so often these days, it isn't always the first of the immigrants who are extreme, sometimes it is their children, who perhaps are trying to find their roots and identity that become converts to extremism.

In Britain, our TV news reports are heavily censored so that we are not upset by the 'real world'. We are warned if there is going to be flash photography in case it provokes an epileptic fit, and if someone is having a wound dressed, the announcer's brow will crease with worry and warn us 'that some people might find it upsetting.'

There have been reports of the most horrific atrocities being committed in Iraq and Syria. To find out the truth of exactly what is happening, I turned to a website called Live leaks, where some of the footage taken by those committing the atrocities is posted by them on the Internet as warning to those thinking of opposing them. Like our TV stations, they warn you of the content then allow you to make up your mind whether you want to go ahead. To watch the horrors takes a very strong stomach as it shows helpless people being beaten, humiliated and then murdered with the most horrific brutality, accompanied to shrieks of' 'God being great.

Ah yes, but that happens in their own countries, not ours, except perhaps for the young soldier Lee Rigby.

[sherri]

Fair comment Sherri. I am usually called PC and do gooder but I think there is nothing wrong with valid criticism. I was thinking of you Aussies during a debate on immigration on another board. Someone said we should be like Australlia and only let people with skills that we need come into the Country. Always seems to me that is a rose tinted view and Australia does have some problems with immigration and assimilating different cultures. Not being critical just saying that some people here think Australia has got it right.

The only thing Australia has that you have not got is some autonomy over our immigration system. You lot are in the EU and apparently can't change some things even if you wanted to. Mind you, if I were a politician, I would be pushing for change in the EU rules and pushing very hard. England is becoming known as the welfare state for Europe. That thought has been expressed more and more often in newspapers here lately.

But things are not perfect here. We have some hate preachers who live here, stay on welfare here, have large families here and yet are allowed to stay, despite their influence, the fact they get up in mosques as spiritual leaders and preach violence. We have refugees here who commit atrocious crimes within days or weeks of being allowed in and yet they are allowed to stay (despite us knowing their country of origin). I'd be sending them back to the refugee camp myself, if I had my way.

Sherri says: "If we allow extremists to live here, to preach here and to have their own sharia law, then bit by bit we will be importing trouble." Very true of course, but it would seem so often these days, it isn't always the first of the immigrants who are extreme, sometimes it is their children, who perhaps are trying to find their roots and identity that become converts to extremism.

In Britain, our TV news reports are heavily censored so that we are not upset by the 'real world'. We are warned if there is going to be flash photography in case it provokes an epileptic fit, and if someone is having a wound dressed, the announcer's brow will crease with worry and warn us 'that some people might find it upsetting.'

To watch the horrors takes a very strong stomach as it shows helpless people being beaten, humiliated and then murdered with the most horrific brutality, accompanied to shrieks of' 'God being great.

Ah yes, but that happens in their own countries, not ours, except perhaps for the young soldier Lee Rigby.

Ralph, we have exactly the same thing happening here, that second generation can be more extreme than their parents. I blame our system for some of this, too. We have encouraged people to hold dual nationality. Assimilation is now a dirty word.
To my mind, we would be better off getting rid of the system of double passports, I don't care how convenient it is. And it is convenient. I know of one family (Indonesians) where the children did assimilate quite well but the primary purpose of coming here and getting aussie passports was trade. It has worked out extremely well for them, the son now lives over there but we see him when he visits, while the father runs the import business from this end. But nice and decent as that family is, the truth remains that the overwhelming reason for them becoming aussies was convenience.

I think something like 90% of migrants are now in that mind set. I am not saying most of them are trouble, they are not. But I have met person after person-neighbours, workmates- and they all say the same thing, that this isn't their country, they are 'croatians' or 'Italians' or whatever and will never be Australians (even though several of these people were BORN here) and their home country is better but economically they are better off here.

I would force people into a choice. Only one nationality, no dual citizenship. No real problems if people chose to stay Croatian or Iranian or anything else. Except they could not vote here. And if they committed serious crime, they could be deported.
I would make citizenship a 10 year process, 5 years here before application, then 5 years on probation.
I don't think it would change attitudes overnight, I think it will be a huge task to turn around that particular attitude ship against the current tide.

But the fastest, easiest way to cut down on future trouble would be to drastically cut down on migration from troubled areas. Our govt is a bit scared to flag that, but the later they leave it, the harder it will be, as the migrants will be voters.

I worry about big business in all of this too. We currently have something like 60,000 unemployed nurses, so I was reading. It is hard for a graduate to get work. Yet apparently we are importing thousands of nurses from third world or Asian countries on special visas. They get in if there is seen to be a 'shortage' of skilled workers in that area. That is pretty suss, to me.

[Globalmyths]

Would I be considered racist if I said the truth: I believe that the aborigine of Australia, the Maori of New Zealand
and many of the African nations would still be the way they were, if the Europeans had not found them and given
them the technology they have today.

[sherri]

Would I be considered racist if I said the truth: I believe that the aborigine of Australia, the Maori of New Zealand
and many of the African nations would still be the way they were, if the Europeans had not found them and given
them the technology they have today.

It's not racist as such, it is fact that humans have got ahead by sharing knowledge.
We've had a few hundred years where European thought forged ahead, but I suppose (through sheer population numbers), we should soon see some innovation coming from different areas.

Depends on the mind set, though. Look at Japan. When I was very young, 'Made in Japan' was a sign of something cheap and nasty, but the Japanese turned that around completely in a few decades. They weren't so much inventors as innovators, taking what was invented and improving on it.

[ralph]

Sherri. your comment about Japan is so true. When the were turning out all those cheap and nasty products. they were stamped as 'Empire Made.'