BlueDave wrote:Jane Doe. It really does not matter what you're opinion on being called a sanddancer is. This is the undisputeable fact. You are one.
P.S. To everyone else. Doesn't she go on?
It is not an undisputeable fact - what were Shields people 'pre-open-air dances' on the beach? Geordies! I was born a Geordie and I'll be a Geordie 'til I peg-out!
Sanddancer, as I think quite a few of the 'elders' on here (like me) have said, is a relatively new term. They hadn't even heard the term until more recent years. And the more I'm digging in to it, the more I'm getting the impression it is the Sunderland people that started the term off as a p*** take. I know that was certainly my experience of it.
Regarding "P.S. To everyone else. Doesn't she go on?"
Don't worry, I won't be going on much longer. I've made my point I'm now just replying to those in agreement / answering the critisisms, then I'll be gone.
Ouch - nice one Jimmy - you made me squirm after my very first post. Been there from around 1990 I would guess. Don't like the place myself though -sells food and too many bairns running around.
However I don't really think it detracts from the point I was making - that is, how Shields people identify themselves. I'm aware that the term Sanddancer exists, I just argue that the majority of people in Shields see themselves as Geordies and in my experience the term sandancer is one without any historical basis in local culture and is being foisted upon us by a minority of people with their own agenda.
NeilT wrote:Each time it has been by a fundamentalist sunderland supporter who being too ashamed to embrace the wear and its culture
Neither myself nor any mackems I know has any shame over embracing our wearside culture. If you want to talk about offensive remarks you should consider that one.
As I pointed out to Jane earlier it matters not what your personal opinion is or what you choose to call yourself. If you are from South Shields you are a sanddancer albeit grudgingly.
As I've pointed out to you - it matters not if people want to give South Shields a new and more exotic 'tag', we are still Geordies.
Ouch - nice one Jimmy - you made me squirm after my very first post. Been there from around 1990 I would guess. Don't like the place myself though -sells food and too many bairns running around.
However I don't really think it detracts from the point I was making - that is, how Shields people identify themselves. I'm aware that the term Sanddancer exists, I just argue that the majority of people in Shields see themselves as Geordies and in my experience the term sandancer is one without any historical basis in local culture and is being foisted upon us by a minority of people with their own agenda.
Cisco wrote:Jane is right on this one, I use to work in Sunderland quite a while back now and when they found out you were from Shields you were labeled a sanddancer and I've got to say I did find it a derogatory insult.
The fact is they were refering to the arab population in Shields, and that is how the term came about.
It's only in later years that Shields people put a different slant on it.
It's the same with mackems, that was an insulting term to describe them for the way they spoke, now they have adopted as their own and proud of it.
As for geordies, the first time I worked with them I thought they were aliens the way the talked they were also very aggressive people. But that's a lot of years ago.
We have all moved on a lot since them days.
Cisco
Exactly Cisco - the 'Arab' connection is usually underneath the 'friendly insult' (as Jimmywizz put it).
I'm puzzled about your comment: "As for geordies, the first time I worked with them I thought they were aliens the way the talked they were also very aggressive people."
I don't get what you mean about 'the way they talked'? I'm in Newcastle practically every day - I shop there rather than doon street (cos there's hardly anything left in Shields these days - it's all Card Shops and Charity Shops). Also, I have relations there. And as far as I can tell, they speak just about same as us. The only time I notice any slight difference is if I speak to anyone from northern Northumberland. Apart from that Newcastle and other Tyneside areas speak very much the same to my ears.
NeilT wrote:Hello - I browse this site (very) occasionally, but never thought I'd contribute until I came across this thread.
Jane, I'm with you ...
In 43 years of living (born and bred) in Shields - of working, and of drinking in pubs and clubs with every layer of Shields society - I have only on 3 occasions in over 25 years heard the word "sanddancer" used (I'd never heard it used at all until I was 35). Each time it has been by a fundamentalist sunderland supporter who being too ashamed to embrace the wear and its culture attempts to undermine our Tyneside Geordie heritage with small minded attempts at cultural revisionism.
I am a Geordie from Shields. If you want to be a sandy then fine - but don't tell me that I'm not a Geordie but a sandy. That really is offensive, especially when everyone I know (unless they have accessed this site) aren't even familiar with the word.
As for the Doon Street thing: overwhelmingly Shields people say "down street" or more likely its slang derivative "doon street". But "down town" is also, if somewhat less, used as well and therefore I have heard "doon toon" - the "toon" bit being slang for "town" (as is "doon" for "down") and nout to do with a "foreign expression imported from Newcastle" - more macem revisionism Curly??
Thank You Neil!! I'm pleased to see someone else from So. Shields having pride in our 'Geordie' origins. I agree with all that you have said and like you, I find the term very offencive. I'm a Geordie - NOT a sand dancer.
You made another good point in saying that most people from So. Shields would consider themselves Geordies. If the Shields Gazette were to run a poll I think the majority would class themselves as such.
NeilT its not a pub i get in a lot as last time i was in there i found it a bit dear for a drink, as for the geordies v sanddancers thing, there is nothing to stop people saying that they are from the north east of england and therefore are from geordie land, but at the same time they can use the extra nickname of sanddancer if they come from shields, as for the date when the nickname came about the dances on the beach and also the music hall acts came from the 1920s to 1930s so you could say the nickname could have been around for over 80 years but was not in wide use untill later years, i bet if you get a copy of our local papers going back 100 years you would not find a story about geordies in them yet everyone reckons that this name has been used for that amount of time but you wont find it in print
NeilT wrote:Ouch - nice one Jimmy - you made me squirm after my very first post. Been there from around 1990 I would guess. Don't like the place myself though -sells food and too many bairns running around.
However I don't really think it detracts from the point I was making - that is, how Shields people identify themselves. I'm aware that the term Sanddancer exists, I just argue that the majority of people in Shields see themselves as Geordies and in my experience the term sandancer is one without any historical basis in local culture and is being foisted upon us by a minority of people with their own agenda.
"I just argue that the majority of people in Shields see themselves as Geordies and in my experience the term sandancer is one without any historical basis in local culture and is being foisted upon us by a minority of people with their own agenda."
Very well put Neil.
Also, I think that since the pit (my man was a pitman), shipyards and coal staithes closed down the younger people in Shields have lost touch with their Geordie heritage. (By younger I don't just mean teenagers & early 20's - I mean up to their 40's approx.)
jimmywizz wrote:"and of drinking in pubs and clubs with every layer of Shields society - I have only on 3 occasions in over 25 years heard the word "sanddancer" used" you must not get out a lot then neil as we do have a pub called THE SANDDANCER in the town and that has been there for a good few years now
Hmm... yes... the pub by that name. I wonder where it got it's inspiration from in naming it? A hark back to the Shields open-air dances / Wilson, Keppel and Betty connection. Which is what I started with - and I notice you haven't acknowledged my reply to you on that subject.
hi jane here is a challange for you, everyone says that the term geordies has been around for well over a 100 years (King Georges men) well the world wide web is full of millions of historical documents, so see if you can find me a copy of one original historical book or paper that uses the term geordie when talking about a person from tyneside and not just refering to the King George story
jimmywizz wrote:NeilT its not a pub i get in a lot as last time i was in there i found it a bit dear for a drink, as for the geordies v sanddancers thing, there is nothing to stop people saying that they are from the north east of england and therefore are from geordie land, but at the same time they can use the extra nickname of sanddancer if they come from shields, as for the date when the nickname came about the dances on the beach and also the music hall acts came from the 1920s to 1930s so you could say the nickname could have been around for over 80 years but was not in wide use untill later years, i bet if you get a copy of our local papers going back 100 years you would not find a story about geordies in them yet everyone reckons that this name has been used for that amount of time but you wont find it in print
The term Goerdie has been mentioned 'in print' dating back to the 18th century. It was documented that the Jacobites said [of the lack of support for their cause in the north east] "these men are Geordie's". Also, Geordies have been mentioned in poems about the coalfields from that time.
I am a Geordie Tynesider who happens to be a Sanddancer. Ah like to gan doon street noo and aggen but when me pals from doon sooth are up I say ahm ganning doon toon, if we gan to Newcastle we are ganning to THE TOON. Ah ahlso support Sunderland FC as do a lot of other "Geordies" , "Tynesider Geordies" and "Tynesider Geordie Sanddancers". It is all perfectly clear to me.
Last edited by baldy.smith on Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BlueDave wrote:[quote="Jane Doe
Also, I think that since the pit (my man was a pitman), shipyards and coal staithes closed down the younger people in Shields have lost touch with their Geordie heritage. (By younger I don't just mean teenagers & early 20's - I mean up to their 40's approx.)
People from shields don't have a geordie heritage. They are sanddancers.[/quote]
So in that case - the history and the heritage of the people of South Shields only goes back to the 1920's/30's then? Well as she was born long before then, are you saying ... me Ganny didn't exist then?!!
jane the Jacobites story is just getting back to king georges men story again, what i am saying is post a link on this site to a page from any website on the whole of the world wide web which contains billions of pages of historical info, just show me a copy of one original page that uses the term geordies and is more than 100 years old, like you said above about the miners just point me to the page
