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Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:02 pm
by sless
Axeman wrote:I don't want to say too much as you never know who's on the boards..don't want to upset anyone..

When I had my brief spell in the Police I had to watch over a kid in the cells.

He killed a young girl, I think his girlfriend, by stabbing her in Mowbray Road in 1975..

Don't know what happened to him, but he looked quite calm and collected in the cells.... a bit frightening..

Hate to think he's out and about now.

.

i know who your talking about
he lived oposite me when i was growing up
a right wierdo
but he is d e a d now
thank christ
stabbed the lass 19 times in the neck at the junction of kingsway on mowbray rd
he wanted to go to a party and he was told to clean his football boots
so he ran out the house and got a knive from his nannas on mowbray rd
waited for a girl to come along
and he did the dirty deed
it was NOT his girlfriend

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:44 pm
by comeonthen
CateyJane wrote:Hi,
I'm a student on the Drama and Scriptwriting course at Northumbria University and for an assessment I've been asked to write a play about something that has happened locally as a hypothetical commission for the 'Live!' theatre.
I asked my Mam about the local history of South Shields and she mentioned the Torso in the Tank story. She also mentioned that the man convicted might not be guilty. The play only has to be 20 minutes long so I don't want to have too many scene changes. The story really interested me so I googled it and stumbled across this thread. There doesn't seem to be much more information on the internet about the case so it would be great if any of you could help me out. I've never written about a true story before and I'm only just starting my research at the minute. If it turns out to be a good enough script I am going to adapt it to become a short film. I don't mean to offend anybody by writing it and of course I won't use real names.
Things like the minutes to the trial would be great... assuming you can :? and if anyone knows if that programme made about it is still knocking around??

thanks guys and girls
Catey x
The programe that you are talking about is Rough Justice with David Jessell I do not know if it is still available though. The last that I heard of Ernest Clarke was that he was out of jail and living in Hull at the time of his release. A ;ot of people think that he did not do it but admitted to it to get out of jail. There is another person in jail for a murder in South Shields, he is called Winter, I think. He was found guilty of murdering an old sea pilot. He still maintains he is innocent in spite of being released if he admits he is guilty.
When I done research for my true crime books I used the local history library in Shields trawling through the back copies of the Gazette and other local papers. Not everything is told like it is but with research and going again and again over everything you learn how to seperate the chaff from the wheat.
I always believe that you can upset people by writing a story so fresh in people's mind but if Ernest Clarke is not guilty then the real murderer is still out there somewhere, maybe even living in Shields. He must be brought to Justice no matter how long after the offence. If Ernest Clarke is guilty then we hope he is suffering. Only the truth will satisfy all parties.
I wish you all the best with your project and I think it would make a good subject for a film 'is he guilty or not?'
comeonthen

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:15 pm
by Pilot
The Pilot was Tony Nevens, I knew him for many years up to his murder, I have no idea if Winter was guilty or not, but the courts thought so.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:37 pm
by comeonthen
What would you do?
You have been accused of a murder and been found guilty and sentenced to 30 years in prison. You know that you are innocent so you will not admit to being guilty. If they told you that you will get out early if you admit you are guilty would you do it or would you still protest your innocence and spend the rest of your life in prison?
comeonthen

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:02 pm
by Pilot
Well if had done it I would own up to get out, if I didnt do it, its a bit more involved but on balance I would admit it and then tell everyone why I admitted it after I was free. :?

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:58 am
by comeonthen
Pilot wrote:Well if had done it I would own up to get out, if I didnt do it, its a bit more involved but on balance I would admit it and then tell everyone why I admitted it after I was free. :?
Would people believe you when you were free. Also the police would not be looking for anyone else. You saying your guilty would make the headlines but when you get out and say you are innocent you would not get the same publicity.
comeonthen

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:13 am
by Pilot
Well to be honest I would only be interested in people I knew or cared about knowing the reason I admitted it.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:40 pm
by Axeman
i know who your talking about
he lived oposite me when i was growing up
a right wierdo
but he is d e a d now
thank christ
stabbed the lass 19 times in the neck at the junction of kingsway on mowbray rd
he wanted to go to a party and he was told to clean his football boots
so he ran out the house and got a knive from his nannas on mowbray rd
waited for a girl to come along
and he did the dirty deed
it was NOT his girlfriend
Cheers for that Sless.

He's dead now !!

Do you know how that came about ?

I feel a bit relieved about that. He did give off some weird vibes, when I was near him !! :shock:

One other unpleasant experience I had in the Police, was seeing the murder photographs of a girl that had been stabbed
in a flat in Ocean Road in early 70's late 60's not sure.

.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:02 am
by daryn
I remember Dudgeon,when he got the girl in cheviot road, we were very good friends of his,we met him on the cb radio but didnt know who he was,we used to go to his home ,we were only 14.he became friends with alot of people in our street and the night he attacked the girl in cheviot road he had walked one of our girl friends home.How lucky was she.his handle on the cb radio was running bare (not running bear),he used to go to the beachbreakers cb club at the new crown.I thank my lucky stars he didnt go for one of us.I remember his sister from the britannia she was a lovely girl.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:17 pm
by Bandana Dave
Hey Guys, i actually knew both of the young girls who were murdered, in shields, the torso in the tank was that of Eileen McDougal, she was a verry pretty young girl and full of life, she lived in whitelease for a while and i'm sure her family lived there, she used to hang about with us at one time, but she was a free spirit at the time and we all thought she had gone off to live in london or something, the other young girl Vivian Scot was also a fantastic person to have around, so full of life and a great laugh, she lived with my ex partner for a while and i'm sure she still was when she was murdered, both of these young woman were well missed and would have no doubt turned into special people had they not been in the wrong place at the wrong time,Quite sad really !

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:33 am
by malaymac
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I find reading these articles very disturbing. What a sad waste of someone's life.

The whole concept of unprovoked murder in circumstances like this leaves me very cold and unable to imagine
just exactly, what is it, that pushes someone 'over the edge' to do such a thing ? Cold blooded murder.

I'm struggling to understand how someone can take the life of another, completely innocent person
on a one to one basis without any provocation whatsoever.

For those few minutes while the attack is taking place, does something snap in their way of thinking ?
do they actually already have a violent character flaw ? and this just needs to be clicked into action ?

What is it that makes them completely devalue another life and loose all reasonable compassionate thinking for the victim ?

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:38 am
by malaymac
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I find reading these articles very disturbing. What a sad waste of someone's life.

The whole concept of unprovoked murder in circumstances like this leaves me very cold and unable to imagine
just exactly, what is it, that pushes someone 'over the edge' to do such a thing ? Cold blooded murder.

I'm struggling to understand how someone can take the life of another, completely innocent person
on a one to one basis without any provocation whatsoever.

For those few minutes while the attack is taking place, does something snap in their way of thinking ?
do they actually already have a violent character flaw ? and this just needs to be clicked into action ?

What is it that makes them completely devalue another life and loose all reasonable compassionate thinking for the victim ?

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:10 am
by comeonthen
These people are phycopaths and as such people they have no conscience as to what is right or wrong. The conscience is what prevents people killing for no reason, also the fear of being caught is a prevention. People can kill in a fit of temper or in retaliation to violence but the phycopath kills just because he feels like it at the time and because he/she has no conscience they can walk away without any feelings at all. As for being punished, they, in their mind, have done no wrong so why should they feel the fear of getting caught.
The most worrying thing about a phycopath is that they can be clinically diagnosed but there is no cure and untill they actually do something they cannot be locked up.
The above are the violent phycopaths who kill, and thankfully they are in the minority of phycopaths. The non violent ones though are in great abundance all over the place. These are the ones that can wreck your life without you knowing about it. These are the ones that can emotionally break you up.
comeonthen

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:20 pm
by Barney
As I mentioned earlier, Vivian was my cousin.
I was one of the coffinbearers at her funeral.
I was also working with Marie, her mother, at the Duster when it happened, and it was an horrific shock to all of us.
Vivian was a wonderful person, always full of life and mischief! I have many fond memories of growing up with her and her brothers and sisters. It was terrible what Dudgeon did, and the fact is, he almost got away with it. And then he was let out to re-offend.

C'est la vie.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:45 am
by rusty
i remember a murder from a while ago, person found shot in a car under a railway bridge,some connection with the clubs and one arm bandits.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:23 am
by baldy.smith
rusty wrote:i remember a murder from a while ago, person found shot in a car under a railway bridge,some connection with the clubs and one arm bandits.
The car was an E type Jaguar, the bridge was in South Hetton, the guys name was Angus Sibbett.
The two men accused and found guilty of his murder were Michael Luvaglio and Dennis Stafford.
They were all partners in the one arm bandit business and apparently had a big falling out.
I have good reason to remember this because when I worked on one arm bandits myself, my boss
at the time warned me to keep well clear of them and if they turned up anywhere where I was
working; to get out. They were notorious for putting one armed bandits into places where the
property owners didn't want them, if they refused to have them, well.....it was a lot like some
of the protection rackets in the old days.

8)

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:53 am
by rusty
I think my younger brother got a big fright,he came and lived with me down south for a while at the time that all happened.(you are up quite late)

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:08 am
by baldy.smith
rusty wrote:.(you are up quite late)
It was 10.30 in the morning when I posted that, but I've been up since
just after 4 am.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:14 am
by rusty
yes i think the man in the Jag was opening the one armed bandits before the owners got there,extra keys.

Re: MURDERS IN SOUTH SHIELDS

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:21 am
by baldy.smith
rusty wrote:yes i think the man in the Jag was opening the one armed bandits before the owners got there,extra keys.
The man in the Jag was one of the owners, but I believe he was short changing them.

8)